God and Man

Common arguments against the Church involve our view of the Godhead.  Our opponants claim we are not Christian because we reject the doctrine of the trinity, we believe Jesus and Satan were spirit brothers, and because we believe we may become Gods.

We are Christian because we believe Jesus is the Word spoken of in the first chapter of John.  We are fully aware that he, the Son of God, took upon himself flesh and died so all men might live by faith in his name.  We know it is only through Christ we can attain salvation.  Because of this we are Christian regardless of what else we believe.

This page contains the files:

  • The Godhead (By: Michael Flournoy)
  • Were Jesus and Satan Brothers? (By: Michael Flournoy)
  • Children of God (By: Michael Flournoy)

 The Godhead

By: Michael Flournoy

"It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me." -Jesus Christ (John 8:17-18)

Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came to earth and took upon himself a fleshly body. He walked among men, teaching the way of salvation. He said "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me (John 14:6)." The Son of God atoned for the sins of the world and was lifted upon a cross to die. Three days later he was resurrected, fulfilling prophecy and proving he was the Messiah.

As Latter-day Saints we believe all this. We believe Jesus was more than a prophet. He is our Savior, our Redeemer, and our hope. Nephi of The Book of Mormon said, "…We talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins (2 Nephi 25:26)." Yet of the believers of Christ, many have concluded that Mormons are not Christian. The argument is Mormons have a different view of God. Opponents of the Church claim we believe in a God possessing different attributes and qualities, and therefore a different Jesus entirely; one who cannot save us from our sins, and therefore our faith is vain. When I discuss this topic I think, finally we are getting to the real meat of the debate between Latter-day Saints and Evangelicals. Most arguments against the Church are minor with no lasting significance. Even if The Book of Mormon itself were proven wrong or if Joseph Smith was shown to be a fraud it would only go so far as to prove the restoration false; but quite frankly, this is the only argument for Latter-day Saints not being Christian. If there are other mistakes in the Mormon Church, we could be called disillusioned or mistaken, but we would be Christian nonetheless.

Christians primarily believe in the Trinity, which means they believe the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one being. More specifically, according to their doctrine they're distinctly separate, but made of the same essence and are therefore one. They believe Jesus came from God to earth and was God incarnate. Jesus may have a body in most sects of Christianity, but the Father and the Holy Ghost do not. Latter-day Saints, on the other hand, believe in the Godhead, or that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are three separate Gods. We also believe that the Father and the Son both possess bodies of flesh and bone.

With the concept of the Godhead comes several questions from mainstream Christianity. They wonder how we can believe the Father has a body when Jesus said "God is a Spirit?", and how we can believe in three separate Gods when the Bible says explicitly that there is one. I would like to explain both of these in detail.

God has a Body

Before I address the corporeal body of God, there is a great misconception that must be cleared up. As adamant as we LDS are about God having a body, some have pointed out an apparent contradiction in our scriptures concerning the Godhead. The dispute is between Doctrine and Covenants 130:22 and Alma 18:26-28.  Doctrine and Covenants 130:22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us. Alma 18:26-28 And then Ammon said: Believest thou that there is a Great Spirit? And he said, Yea. And Ammon said: This is God…

So the critics say the Doctrine and Covenants teaches a God with a body, while The Book of Mormon teaches that God is a spirit. First, Ammon was not teaching a detailed lesson about God, but was trying to expound on basic principles already known to King Lamoni. If one will take the time to read Alma 18 this will all be clearer. The Lamanite king already believed in a Great Spirit, so Ammon was basically just saying, "I know God is a foreign word to you, but you already believe in him as the Great Spirit."

The ironic thing is Ammon certainly didn't lie. God was a spirit! It is believed that when Ammon said this it was about 90 B.C.E., which means Jesus had not yet taken upon himself flesh. The Doctrine and Covenants is modern scripture. So it's safe to say that Ammon's preaching was true, and Doctrine and Covenants 130:22 is true.

After explaining the above principles, a young Evangelical once asked me, "But how do you know Ammon was talking about Jesus and not the Father when he said God was a spirit?"

This was a good question indeed. We believe Jesus created all things. Mosiah 3:8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary. As Ammon preached he began to mention that this God was a creator. Alma 18:28 And Ammon said: This is God. And Ammon said unto him again: Believest thou that this Great Spirit, who is God, created all things which are in heaven and in the earth? In verse 32 he continues… yea and he looketh down upon all the children of men; and he knows all the thoughts and intents of the heart; for by his hand were they all created from the beginning. This is how I know Ammon spake of Christ.

I'm not going to spend a lot of time on Jesus' body, since I assume most Christians would believe he has one. The literal resurrection of Christ is a vital part of the gospel. If there was no resurrection our faith is vain (1 Corinthians 15:17). Romans 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Since Christ would not die again, there is no reason to suppose he ever shed his physical body.

The idea of the Father possessing a physical form is often met with opposition. The scripture most used to deny God a body is found in John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. As Latter-day Saints we are convinced that you can have a body, even if you are a spirit. Our own co-existing body and spirit is proof of that. Yes, God is a spirit, containing a tangible shell of flesh and bones.

I had an interesting conversation with a Christian fellow one-day who said John 4:24 is misunderstood by most Christians. He pointed out that the S in Spirit is capitalized and didn't mean spirit at all. It meant 'the Holy Ghost was God'.

"But it doesn't say God is the Spirit." I said, "It says God is 'a' Spirit." He must have noticed that for the first time, just as I had, and he said he didn't have an answer for such a thing. I don't have an answer either, although if the words God and Spirit are interchangeable, isn't it saying God is 'a' God? In any case this scripture does nothing to support the Trinity.

What do you think an Evangelical would say if you asked if God could eat? My experience shows me they would deny the possibility because God has no body with which to perform the task.

As silly as this sounds, Moses taught it to the Israelites. Deuteronomy 4:27-28 And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. The God of Moses could eat (Genesis 18:1-8), why can't the God of the Protestants?

At this point many would prefer to say God can do anything, regardless of whether or not he has a body, rather than reconsider their stance on the Trinity. I think this notion is a serious mistake because when Jesus was resurrected he proved he had a body by eating! This is something he simply wouldn't have done if a spirit could eat. Luke 24: 41-43 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them. To me all of this makes sense because the Father has, and always has had a body.

On another occasion I had a chance to sit down with a Christian college student who expressed dire concerns about God having a body. He said God had too much power, too much love, too much majesty, and too much wisdom to possibly fit inside a body the size of man's. His other concern was how God could be omnipresent if he had a body. I would like to examine both concerns.

First, how can such a great God be contained in a body? This college student thought God must be a spirit so big as to fill the expanse of space in order to carry so much glory. Before I go on I must truly say that I admire the zeal so many Protestants have of God's greatness, which is a great blessing.

I do think bodies are a bit underestimated, which is understandable since ours cause us so many problems. But remember, Jesus had a body; and while he was on earth he still possessed Godly attributes. He could walk on water; heal the sick, and calm storms. Even with a body he had perfect love and wisdom. I don't think limitations have anything to do with bodies, but with lack of faith. Jesus taught that if we have faith we can do all things (Matthew 21:21). A body would not cause God limitations. In fact the Bible calls the body a holy temple (see John 2:19-21 and 1 Corinthians 3:16-17), so it makes sense that God could have one.

The next concern was, how can God be omnipresent if he has a body? Latter-day Saints wouldn't say God is everywhere at once, but that his influence permeates the universe. Even from an Evangelical standpoint a God with a body shouldn't be too hard to fathom, since they believe He is outside of time. If time is no issue, there is no reason why he couldn't he omnipresent.

Next, there are different places in the Bible which hint at God possessing a body. I won't bring up all the body parts attributed to God in the Old Testament, since they are widely believed to be metaphorical. Suffice it to say I believe in a God who literally has hands, feet, and shoulders.

My first biblical point comes from Genesis 1:26-27 And God said, Let us make man in our own image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.

Latter-day Saints would agree with other Christians that being created in God's image involves an array of attributes, but we also take that scripture to mean we are created to look like God physically. The scripture that backs this up in found in Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and he called his name Seth. Isn't this interesting? The same words 'image' and 'likeness' are used here. If Seth looked anything like Adam, who's to say we don't look like God?  Not only that, but who's to say God isn't physical like us?

A defining point of the Trinity has always been that God doesn't have a body, but is Spirit which permeates the universe.  In this way God is able to be omnipresent, or everywhere at once.  There are songs which depict God as an 'all in all' or a being who is everything and in everything.  The Old Testament however, does not teach this.  1 Kings 19:11-12 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD.  And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountaints, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was NOT in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was NOT in the earthquake: and after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was NOT in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

Most Christians, I dare say, would submit that God does have a body. Since Jesus was resurrected, and he and his Father are 'one in essence', it shouldn't be a dilemma at all. The real distinction is that we say Jesus and his Father are separate, both possessing individual bodies.

Three Separate Beings

Protestants probably think Latter-day Saints are pretty blasphemous when they read the Pearl of Great Price, which is part of our scripture. There they read the account of the creation, but there's a twist. Instead of God doing these things, it's written as 'the Gods'. However, the Hebrew word for God in the Old Testament creation story is Eloheim, which is a plural noun. Therefore the literal translation of Genesis 1:1 would be: In the beginning the Gods created the heaven and the earth.

Christians today inform me that 'the Gods' is only plural to show respect to royalty, and use the example that a lord might once have been called lords. Also the noun is normally not thought to be plural in number, but defines that God doesn't just possess glory, love, and wisdom; but glory upon glory, love upon love, and wisdom above wisdom. If this is true of the Old Testament, then it should be equally true with the Pearl of Great Price, and therefore there is no reason for Christians to be offended by what they read therein. If that is not correct then it becomes important for Christians and Latter-day Saints alike to question why the Bible and Pearl of Great Price claim Gods created the world.

It is very apparent that in the Old Testament God is speaking to someone during and after the creation story. Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…Whomever God was speaking to, it was a being capable of creating man. Not only that, but this being must have had the same image and likeness of God in order for us to be made in the image and likeness of both. God could have been speaking to no one else but God, and the use of 'us' in the passage shows they are separate. This also happens in Genesis 11. Genesis 11:6-7 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Latter-day Saints do not find these passages to be a problem in any way, because we understand the Father and the Son to be two distinct personages.

In John 10:30 Jesus states, "I and my Father are one." Also, in John 14:8-11 Philip asks the Lord to show forth the Father and he replies, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake." Scriptures such as these lay the blueprint for the Trinity. It is widely believed that Jesus and the Bible together teach one God. Furthermore, I've read Christian fliers which teach God is a spirit so he can live in our hearts.

Let's deal with the problem of God dwelling in us first. I have spent some time explaining that God has a body, so how can he dwell inside of me? From a Latter-day Saint perspective I do not believe God's person actually inhabits my body, but rather that his influence and the Holy Ghost dwell in my heart. Remember that John 4:24 teaches that the Holy Ghost also holds the title God. It is true that the Holy Ghost dwells in our bodies. 1 Corinthians 6:19 What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

It should also be noted that these same statements about the Father and the Son being one are found in The Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants. 2 Nephi 31:21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen. Doctrine and Covenants 76:1 Hear, O ye heavens, and give ear, O earth, and rejoice ye inhabitants thereof, for the Lord is God, and beside him there is no savior.

Although the same wording is used in LDS scripture, it's not interpreted the same way by Latter-day Saints. We understand the word 'one' to represent perfect unity rather than one form or essence. There are some examples in the Bible of 'one' meaning unity. Genesis 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing with be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. The Acts 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Finally, in his great intercessory prayer Jesus prays to the Father and says, "And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are."

Jesus prayed that we could be 'one' in the exact same sense that he and his Father are. I personally believe he was praying his disciples would be unified by faith rather than transformed into one being. If this is the case, this request by the Savior makes much more sense.

But how do we interpret the scripture where Jesus says, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father."? Quite simply we know Jesus is the 'express image' of his Father (Hebrews 1:3); or in other words he looks just like Him, after all he is His Son! This also supports our idea of an embodied Heavenly Father.

Next comes the apparent problem that Jesus said, "I am in the Father, and the Father in me." Jesus also said, "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you (John 14:20)." And what's the problem with that? In the verse before Jesus said in that day the world would not see him, but his disciples would see him because he would live. Now James 2:26 states: For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. If Jesus would be alive, he would have to have both his spirit and his body (which makes sense if his disciples would see him). But according to the Christian scheme of things, Jesus with a body just can't dwell inside us unless 'dwelling in us' has a different meaning than originally thought. Not only that, but Jesus made several references that he would go to the Father. If the Father dwells in him, does that mean he would turn inside-out? I think not. On a side note, if what James said is true, if we are to believe in a living God, we must believe he has a body of flesh and bones.

But didn't I just say it's the Holy Ghost that dwells in us? I would hate to overlook the fact that in John 14:20 Jesus said in that day we would be in him, and he would be in us. If not for certain passages in the Bible, it would seem I had just contradicted myself. 1 Corinthians 6:16-17 What? Know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? For two, saith he, shall be one flesh. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

I haven't run across too many single men who claim they were once married but absorbed their wives. God said man would cleave unto his wife and they would be one flesh (Genesis 2:24), but this is metaphorical. Isn't it interesting that Paul would compare this scripture to being one spirit with the Lord? It was also metaphorical when Jesus said we would be in him, and he would be in us. But in a sense, this also portrays the unity and fellowship we will have with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

With that said, I would now like to turn to a popular scripture. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word is Jesus Christ. Evangelicals read that the Word was with God, but also was God and see a scripture which defines the Trinity perfectly. Latter-day Saints, on the other hand, view God as a title and believe Jesus was with God in the beginning, and also held the title God.

If you are a Christian reading this you might want to shake me and say, "The Bible says there's only one God (Isaiah 44:6, 8)!" I'm afraid it's not that simple. Take a look at what else the Bible says. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. Isn't a mediator supposed to be a middle party?

Now I am fully aware of the doctrinal dilemma I have gotten myself into thus far, and will take a few moments to correct it before continuing on. Earlier I said we believe in 3 Gods, but now I have admitted one God, reducing Jesus to a mediator only. The question that must be asked then is: do Mormons really believe Jesus is God? The highly favored misconception says we do not, but The Book of Mormon teaches we do.1 Nephi 11:7 For if there be no Christ there be no God; and if there be no God we are not, for there could have been no creation. But there is a God, and he is Christ, and he cometh in the fullness of his own time. Mosiah 5:15 Therefore I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.

There you have it; Latter-day Saints do believe Jesus is God. So where is the reconciliation between Jesus and the Father being called God if there is only one God? The scholars of Nicea invented the Trinity to justify this, but we have an alternate conclusion. I almost hate to say it, because I know how annoying it is to Christians who have heard it over and over again, but Jesus is the God of this world. He is the only God we can attain salvation through and so to us there is one God.

After all, isn't this what Paul taught the people at Corinth? 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father; of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. The fact that Paul was talking about idols is unimportant. He didn't say there was one God; he said 'to us' there is one God.

Yet there remain questions to be answered. Paul said 'to us' there is one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ. How can this possibly make sense without the Trinity? Here is something to consider. How do we know he wasn't referring to one being? It could easily be one God with two titles, the Father and the Son. It would be the same if I said there is one Jesus, the Savior, and one God the Redeemer.

But wait a minute! Mormons don't believe Jesus is the Father, right? The answer to this is a complicated mess. We do not believe Jesus is the Father, but we do believe Jesus is sometimes called the Father. Just as they are two separate beings, but both hold the title God, they also each hold the title Father. This is explained in The Book of Mormon.  Mosiah 15:2-4 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son. The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son. And they are one God, yea, the very eternal Father of heaven and of earth. Thus I believe Paul was simply speaking of Jesus when he said "To us there is but one God, the Father; of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

Now I would like to put forth two quotes by the Savior. John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoreth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God. John 5:31, 37 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true…And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath born witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

According to his own words, if he is the Father his witness cannot possibly be true, because he would be bearing witness of himself. Since we believe Jesus spoke the truth, and is the Truth, we must conclude that the Trinity concept is false.

Perhaps the most convincing argument for the Gods being separate and embodied is they have been witnessed as such. Steven saw the Father and the Son right before he was martyred. The Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God. When I have quoted this scripture I have been gently reminded by my opponents that it never says Steven actually saw God. Technically, this is true, but if he did not see the Father then how did he know Jesus was standing at his right?

The biggest reason Latter-day Saints believe in the Godhead is Joseph Smith saw them this way. He wrote: "…I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me… When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other- This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him (Joseph Smith History 1:16-17)!"

One Faith and One Lord

I do not pretend to understand everything about the Godhead or the Trinity. I still have a lot to learn, and my statements may not all be completely correct. But I stand firm in my belief that differences in view of God are no reason for contention. Even if Latter-day Saints are wrong about the Godhead we are still Christians because we believe Jesus can forgive our sins. A number of Christian scholars I know would disagree with me. They say to be saved you must not only believe in Christ, but you must have a correct view of him. If this is truly the case, I fear many Trinity believing Christians are in as much trouble as we are said to be in. My good Evangelical friends are not ashamed to admit that the Trinity is an extremely hard concept to grasp and they don't understand it completely.

I dare say that if we must have this correct concept of God then there are no Christians. To correct this problem, I suppose it would be necessary for scholars to find out where the line is drawn. How much ignorance are we allowed to have, and still tap into God's grace? I think there is a much simpler alternative. There is no mention in the Bible of condemnation overcoming those who do not believe in the trinity. In fact the Bible says, Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men… And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come (Matthew 12:31-32). It should also be noted that the apostle Paul was more concerned that Christ was preached, and not so much how. Philippians 1: 15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of goodwill: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? Notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached: and I therein do rejoice, yea and will rejoice. If we believe Jesus is the Son of God and our source of forgiveness in this world, a little bit of misunderstanding isn't going to condemn us. Latter-day Saints would never say Trinitarians are not followers of Christ just because they attribute doctrinal differences to him.

For Latter-day Saints the Godhead is very, very sacred, and it's hurtful when it's scoffed at. We believe God is our father and we are adopted to Christ when we are born again. To us there is a special closeness to God, which we feel throughout our lives. He is not some unknowable being somewhere far away. Jesus is our family and our friend. I know Jesus is just as dear to many Christians I have met. Their faith is no pretend thing, they know with every bit of understanding they possess that the Lord has revealed himself to them. My belief is the very same Jesus has revealed himself to both Protestants and Mormons regardless of our disputes. It was never knowledge of Jesus that saved, it has always been faith!

I desire for everyone to know that there is no 'other Jesus'. Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? Ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any. Although this scripture is usually used to stir up contentions, I see it as an answer. The 'other Jesus' argument is nothing but a hurtful myth which is not sanctioned by God. My desire is for Latter-day Saints and Protestants to forget their differences and accept each other as Christians. Isn't this the same desire Jesus had? Didn't he pray to the Father that those who were given to him might be one?

One of my favorite scriptures comes from Romans 14, where it talks about the disagreements about eating meat. Romans 14:15-17 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of: For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost. To me this says God's kingdom has nothing to do with the arguments we have here on earth, it's all about righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Finally I would like to bear my testimony of who God is, not from any doctrinal standpoint, but from my own experience. When I was 16 I attended EFY, which is a church service for LDS youth. During my time there the greatest experience of my life occurred. Jesus Christ revealed himself to me. I had had some limited knowledge of who he was before, but in one night I learned more than I could have dreamed. I knew he lived, and that he loved me with a love incomprehensible to my mind. I knew I was accountable to him, and that his power was infinite. So real were the impressions placed in my mind, that to this day it feels the same when I think back on that night. That Cornerstone of the Church has changed my life. I know Jesus is my redeemer and I know there is only one Lord, one faith, one baptism (Ephesians 4:5).

Amen.

 

Were Jesus and Satan Brothers?

By: Michael Flournoy

I recall a door I knocked upon as a full-time missionary.  A woman answered and gave me one of the ugliest looks I'd ever seen.  “Oh, a Mormon,” She said, “you guys aren’t Christian.
 
I couldn’t help myself, probably because it irks me when people say this without giving a reason. “What makes you say that?”
         
She sneered at me and replied, “You believe Satan is the blood brother of Jesus!”
         
I asnwered with, “Satan doesn’t have blood.”  But my answer fell on deaf ears and the door was slammed in my face.
 
That  was not the first time I heard this argument.  Indeed I've heard it often.  But the question I would pose is: does it really matter?  Having and evil brother does nothing to deny Jesus of his glory or Godhood.  Weren’t Cain and Abel brothers, and Jacob and Esau, and Absalom and Solomon?  Even if it did make a difference, at the time Satan was called Lucifer, the Son of the Morning, and was a righteous being. 
However, I feel it safe to say that the real argument has very little to do with whether Jesus and Satan were brothers.  If you dig deeper you will find the true debate stems from whether Jesus is a created being or not.  Evangelical Christians are adamant in the belief that Jesus is Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.  They say he has always existed and was never created.  Interestingly enough, the Bible compliments and supports their claims in many places.  And if Jesus was never created, how can he be the brother of Lucifer, a created being?  The answer: he cannot.
 
Was there a time when Jesus was created?  I believe so.  One title of the Christ is the Beginning and the End. The beginning is also found in Genesis.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.
The Bible states that earth was created ‘in the beginning’ which Christians interpret to mean ‘since eternity’ when referring to Jesus.  But the earth has been dated, and is not infinitely old.  In fact, there are stars and planets much older than ours.  So does this throw anything into question when the scriptures call Jesus the Beginning, or the Alpha?  I’m not saying it does, but it leaves room for discussion.
Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me (wisdom) in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.  This verse speaks of wisdom (see the 1st three verses of the chapter), and reveals that the LORD possesses this divine attribute.  But what do you suppose ‘in the beginning of his way’ could mean?
          
Most Protestants believe Jesus has always existed and there was never a time when he was not God.  This is a dangerous concept, and I will explain why.  Let’s say Jesus has always existed, and nothing but Him is eternal.  He created everything and therefore is older than everything; but how much older?  Considering the fact that even His oldest creation was ‘created’ and He was not, that would make him infinitely older!  This would mean that for eternity after eternity after eternity, Jesus was a god of laziness- doing absolutely nothing until eventually deciding to be a creator.  Surely this is not that changeless being referred to in the Bible!  In my opinion, it makes more sense that Jesus has always been the same since his creation.
          One scholar, in explanation to my above argument, explained to me that God is outside time.  He promised that before God created time there was no waiting or eternity, therefore no reason for God being a created or changing being.  However, if there was no time then there was no infinity or eternity and Jesus could not have lived that long.  He would still have lived forever just because he existed before the foundation of time, but it wouldn’t mean he wasn’t created before that.
 
However, even from an LDS perpective it is arguable that Jesus has always existed. Jesus is just as eternal as the rest of us- modern day revelation teaches that all things are made up of intelligence which cannot be created or destroyed.  Intelligence has always existed and that is what we are made of essentially.  Not to argue against anything I've previously said; but Jesus is made of eternal substance just like the rest of us and therefore has existed forever, just not in the same form as he is in now.
Finally, I want to conclude by saying that when the Lord revealed himself to me, he said something very sacred to me.  He told me in my heart that he was my brother.  Now you might say; Flournoy, that is a Mormon belief and you must have had a false Born Again experience.  I would say: Not so, it’s in the Bible. 
                                            Matthew 12: 48-50
 48But he (Jesus) answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my
 
mother? and who are my brethren?
   49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said,
 
Behold my mother and my brethren!
   50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the
 
same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

As a matter of fact, there are several Biblical scriptures which call Jesus our brother, and I have listed them below.

Matthew 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Hebrew 2 17-18 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.  For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Here's something to ponder.  If we are created beings, and Christ is not, how could we be brothers?  The answer is we couldn't possibly.  But the scriptures are clear that we certainly are brothers and sisters of Christ, and therefore he is a created being.  Although he is infinately superior to us as our Lord and God, he also has the same Father and God we do.  

Now, I do not believe Jesus is my brother only because it's in the Bible or because it's ‘Mormon doctrine’ but because the Lord told me so.  It makes perfect sense in LDS theology just the same.  If Jesus is the Son of the Father, and we are also children of the Most High, then Jesus is our savior, our redeemer, and our brother.

 
 
Children of God
By: Michael Flournoy

As a Latter-day Saint, I was brought up believing that all people are children of our loving Heavenly Father.  But imagine my surprise when I heard this quote from one of our sisters in the Evangelical Church.  “Believers in Jesus are children of God, all others are children of Adam.”
           
At first I thought, how could that be?  Are the scriptures not clear?  But as I searched more deeply to get a feel for their point of view, I found a few examples to their support.
           
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
            Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
            John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
The question posed here is this: why would we need to be adopted if already we are children of God, or why would we need the power to become such if it is already our position?
Our view, of course, is that each and every single one of us is a child of God, regardless of what we believe.  Many scriptures verify our position as well.
           
Romans 8:16 The spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.
            The Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
            Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
            Isaiah 63:16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou o Lord, art our father, our redeemer, thy name is everlasting.
            Isaiah 64:8 But now, O Lord, thou art our father, we are the clay, and thou are potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

As you can see, the supply of scriptures for both sides of this argument are ripe.  But an argument is never good.  To get to the bottom of this mystery one must look deeper into the Evangelical doctrine, and into the scriptures themselves.  It is a fact, that many Evangelicals believe that once you are saved, you can no longer sin, so by default a sinner would be someone who has not accepted the Lord, and therefore is a ‘son of Adam’.  So if you were to ask an Evangelical if an idol worshipper could ever be considered a son of God they would disapprovingly shake their heads.  But would the Lord?
           
Deuteronomy 32:16-19 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.  They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.  Of the rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.  And when the Lord saw it he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons and daughters.
            The Lord our God was angered when he saw the Israelites worshipping false gods.  But is it not interesting that they are still referred to as his children, even while in the act of sacrilege?

Still, this can be a confusing topic.  The most plain and simple answer I can give is the scriptures can mean two people when it says God or Father; those two being Heavenly Father or Jesus Christ.
            We are all children of our Heavenly Father because he created our spirits.  In the New Testament he is called the Father of Spirits (Hebrews 12:9).
 
Jesus is also sometimes called the Father.  This is explained in Mosiah of the Book of Mormon.
Mosiah 15:2-4 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son.  The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son.  And they are one God, yea, the very eternal Father of heaven and of earth.
The fact of the matter is we all are children of our Heavenly Father, but we must be adopted to Christ.
           
Mosiah 15:10-13 And now I say unto you, who shall declare his generation?  Behold, I say unto you, that when his soul has been made an offering for sin he shall see his seed.  And now what say ye?  And who shall be his seed?  Behold I say unto you, that whosoever has heard the words of the prophets, yea, all the holy prophets who have prophesied concerning the coming of the Lord- I say unto you, that all those who have hearkened unto their words, and believed that the Lord would redeem his people, and have looked forward to that day for a remission of their sins, I say unto you, that these are his seed, or they are the heirs of the Kingdom of God.  For these are they whose sins he has borne; these are they for whom he has died, to redeem them from their transgressions.  And now, are they not his seed?  Yea, and are not the prophets, every one that hath opened his mouth to prophecy, that has not fallen into transgression, I mean all the holy prophets ever since the world began?  I say unto you that they are his seed.
            Mosiah 5:7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.
            Mosiah 27:25 And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters.
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.

Lastly I would state, that even if sinners are children of Adam, they are also at least grandchildren of God by default, through the genealogy shown to us in Luke.
Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.